Americans coming to NZ

[Welshgirl]

Originally Posted by Dawn

I only jump on people that I am exceptionally familiar with

That goes some way to explaining that rugby tackle on me a few weeks ago

[Dawn]

Oh yeah, I'd forgotten about that!

PS Come home soon

[Burgundy21]

I am sooo loving this thread, a nice slice of reality from some of us who are actually here ( albeit for a fortnight!!. ) I would like to re assure Beth that round where we are presently there are loads of clothes shops, possible dearer than UK but certainly comparable to France. But, hey you won't need many clothes as kiwi wear is mega casual.!! I've seen lots of great kitchen shops too and have yet to have the dreaded plastic import experience described by KH. What I am learning fast, and it is HARD is, don't compare, it doesn't help and won't get you anywhere. I keep comparing the price of wine, double to what we would pay usually, it's pointless as I won't find a bottle here for 8 dollars ( 4 euros ). I also think I compare when something is negative...went swimming in ChCh and there are no footbaths, must be verucca city, I shudder to think of it, yet every loo here is clean, really clean, so it's swings and roundabouts. Most of my expectations were more or less accurate but expectations count for diddly squat until you are living it. NZ is not a "dream" place it is a country. We are still in holiday mindset, but very soon the budget will kick in and no more endless latt?s and cake. Sounding off on here is good in the main and no one makes us post comments so I'm guessing the re buffs are valued as they challenge us.

[ExPat]

This is one of the best threads I've seen on this forum in a long time. I'm actually glad to see someone reporting the potential pitfalls to NZ.

I'm still thinking of moving there but after reading this forum periodically, it's becoming clear that perhaps a summer (or winter) home in New Zealand might be a better approach for us.

With the US housing meltdown on full steam and world bond markets in chaos, I expect a world wide economic meltdown (NZ included) to bring housing prices back to something more realistic in NZ over the next 12 to 18 months.

Only time will tell....

Expat

[Duke]

I also like this thread...its simple...I like simple daily life broke down for us spoiled brats in America wanting to leave. Please keep it up, I am interested.
New Zealand may be behind the times a bit on living standards but what is the reason for moving there? For all the special amentities? or nature?a change of life? or money?
A new life in New Zealand I think, could be as natural as getting back to your roots, by , gardening, canning, chopping firewood, stuffing newspaper in the walls, and a more high tech practice may include saving plastic and investing in a dehumidifier....etc.( I cannot imagine having to boil water to drink in NZ, Ive drank it and WOW! so that could be the biggest plus of all) or choose an American dream and gather dozens of credit cards and spend uncontrollable at walmarts and home depot(pacnsave and mitre10 in NZ terms) and feel rich for a day...the decision is mine. I personnally think minimum expansion is what makes NZ so special, living to be old fashion and striving to be cutting edge in society.
Maybe I can deliver a POD to NZ filled with magic erasers for everyone, and call it Dollar Generals Day.\
Great thread...looking forward to more

[kokopeli]

Hi Duke,

I think some of the more remote parts of NZ offer the idyllic lifestyle you describe.

Cities like Christchurch, Wellington and Auckland are pretty much like the cities I've visited everywhere else. One of the big differences I've noticed is that shops and trade warehouses hold a very limited range of stock, so it's common to have to place special orders for things you would find almost everywhere in the US and UK. I'm talking about a wide range of things like tyres, tools, clothes, shoes, machine parts etc. Places will generally be able to get what you want and are usually more than willing to help. You just have to wait a few days.

I'm a musician, so I'll use musical instruments by way of example. I loved going into the music shops when we lived in the UK or visited the US because they almost always held a good range of instruments made by lots of different manufacturers. In the UK, even the local shop in our small market town had a great selection of saxophones, trumpets, keyboards and guitars ranging in quality from cheap and cheerful to top-of-the-line.

By contrast, I haven't found a single music shop that stocks a decent range of top-end or even semi-professional horns or guitars in New Zealand. Not a single Selmer or Gibson in sight. The saxes I have found have been cheap junk and I've never heard of the guitar brands. When I've asked about Gibsons and Selmers, the assistants have usually fainted! One guy told me he didn't stock high-end instruments because he wouldn't sell them. I wonder if that's because there are fewer people or because there is less disposable income compared to places like the UK, US and beyond. Or maybe Kiwis just aren't bothered about quality.

Of course, none of this makes NZ a bad place and I'm sure some people will say it's actually quite refreshing. My example is perhaps trivial and the availability of good quality musical instruments isn't necessarily very important. I'm just trying to add to the debate and I think it paints a picture. And yes, I know you can order stuff online from overseas, but it's a pain if you're the sort of person who likes to try before they buy.....

[pianist1]

I am getting off the topic of this post, but on the subject of music....I am a professional musician - I teach and perform/accompany. I have been shocked by the availability of sheet music and the price you have to pay here. A simple method book which costs around $6 in the US sells for around $24 here. I have been hesitant to buy too many books for my students and have given in to the common practice here of just rampantly xeroxing my own music for them. I feel terrible, but all the teachers do it here, complaining that if they ordered the music from the stores, by the time they came in, they would be done with learning the piece and not need it anymore. If we were in the US, I know for sure the copyright police would be having a field day! BTW if anyone is wondering if they should bring their instruments...DO IT! I almost sold my Yamaha piano before we came, but I am so glad we brought it.

[KiwiHopeful]

I've stayed out of this thread, but now that things appear to have cooled off a little, I'm going to weigh in.

First, I consider Nolasmom a friend, so I'm not looking for a fight here, just a little respectful discussion. There's a lot she's said that I agree with--and a lot she hasn't said that I have complained about, too!

Second, I think this thread got a bit heated because those of us who have been around this forum a while probably begin to rankle each time a post like this is posted. Again, no offense intended, but each time (and I can recall at least three threads before this one in the past year or so) the threads cover ground we've been over again and again. And in most cases, this thread being the exception, the original poster gives in to the urge to insult everyone in New Zealand and on this board. (Okay, I will mention one particular thread: the one about the price of cosmetics ... that was a howler!) Inevitably, people appear out of nowhere to pile on with their thoughts about just how bad it is here--though they've never been themselves.

And it all turns into a mess because everyone here is dealing to one degree or another with uncertainty, homesickness, discomfort, doubt, denial ... and a lot of good feelings too. From my own experiences and what others here have shared, nothing else (beside being a parent) can invoke so many different strong emotions--usually all at the same time! (Think about it: how many of us have stood amazed by the beauty of what we see and been sad at the same time because we can't share it with our family or friends?)

I'm not making excuses for anyone or attempting to minimize anyone's right to an opinion. I'm just trying to provide a little perspective.

As for the initial post, there's lots there that resonates with my experience, but there's also some stuff that I'd like to dispute, or perhaps add a little different perspective to.

For instance: shortly after moving into our rental, I was discussing repairs with our landlord and his painter. One corner in the hall was especially chewed up and I suggested they put up a corner guard. By their looks, I thought perhaps we had (another) culture chasm. I described the item and they both looked at me like I had a horn growing out of my forehead. Why would such a thing exist when you could just patch the nicks up over and over?

I haven't looked for corner guard, but Mega Mitre 10 comes within a reasonable distance of Lowes or Home Depot in terms of the range of good available. Of course, some come at a premium. I was surprised at the price of paint, for instance, which comes in at about $70 a gallon (or more) for high quality.

Landlords here seem to be like landlords I've dealt with just about everywhere else: there are the good, the bad, and the ugly. (My parents were divorced, so I grew up in rentals.) Of course, the 'laid back' Kiwi attitude can be a pain in the ass when one feels they need something done 'now!' I remember a post by SteveyC about his leaking roof in Wellington and his frustration at getting that fixed. But, at the same time, if you're looking for a more laid back lifestyle, you have to expect that everyone else is going to be just as relaxed as you want to be!

That leads me to today?s topic, houses. I'll start with a telling bit of news: a law was just passed requiring new houses have insulation. You read that right. Of course, that means existing houses have little to none.

The law about insulation was passed not to insure the comfort of people, but to make houses 'greener' and conserve energy. Considering that even here in the city you can smell wood fires as you drive down the road and see the effects of all of that smoke--there's quite a bit of smog here in Chch--it's probably an excellent idea.

Coming from the Northeast, however, I remember when insulation came into style there, too. Older houses probably had rock wool in the attic, but nothing in the exterior walls and nothing in the basement. I remember seeing insulation installers during the late 70's and early 80's (the first oil crunch), which were these trucks filled with shredded fiberglass insulation which was installed with a blower via a whole they drilled in the exterior wall!

You will see log burners, heat pumps, baseboard heaters, and space heaters (lots of space heaters), but no central heating. Why? Because this is a temperate climate, meaning it almost never freezes. But it does get damned cold in the winter. The kind of wet, low 40s cold that gets into your bones and is loathe to leave. Heating is accomplished room by room via the aforementioned heating units and a twice daily kind of dance you do with your window treatments. Yes, central heating is available but the old ways are adequate.

I, too, live in an unheated house. (I can add a story about unresponsive landlords--as can Nolasmom--and why I don't have a heatpump, but perhaps another day!) But I'm happier with the twice daily dance of moving heaters, opening and closing drapes (which you *must* do at either extreme, unless you want to bake cookies in your east- & south-facing rooms) than I would be paying $3+/gallon for heating oil. I estimate my heating bill back in the US would be about $1,500 this winter--with the thermostat never set above 68 degrees & keeping it at 63 for the 10 hours each day we were at work.

I did get a nice little heater for the boys' room with a timer and thermostat for about $70 and I'll probably pick up one for our bedroom too. Honestly, I like paying for heat only when I need it, though I wouldn't mind having a heatpump to keep the 'large' living/dining/kitchen area warm during the day and the unofficial rule in our house is that the #1 priority of whomever gets up first in the morning is to turn on the heater in the bathroom! I do admit to having described this situation as akin to having an outhouse.

A lack of central heating means a lack of ventilation, so mold is a constant problem. A window has to be cracked when showering, and curtains must be monitored for mold growth.

Our bathroom does have an exhaust fan and we haven't noticed any problems with mold. We do open the window in there on most days, though, because we can.

One thing that occurs to me is that you do need to be careful when choosing property because location, location, location is vitally important here. A cold, windy, overcast day in one part of town can be warm, sunny, and beautiful in another. There was one day when we took the boys to a park down by the beach, left after 10 minutes because it was too windy and cold, changed into warmer clothes, when to another park in the Port Hills, and were peeling off all the layers.

I?ll skim through the rest of the housing issues in no certain order. Garbage disposals are nearly non-existent, meaning they can be had but nobody has one.

Coming from New England, I don't think I've ever seen a house with a garbage disposal--and I don't think you find them in any area where people have septic tanks.

[KiwiHopeful]

Gas cooktops are served by tanks underneath the counter (yup, like your barbeque).

That is strange, but I have seen houses with normal (regular?) size cylinders outside.

Toilets are sometimes in a closet next to the bathroom. No sink in there, just the commode.

Yeah, that is strange too, isn't it. Right idea, I guess, but poor execution.

Entry hall closets and linen closets are rare. We were told that?s the reason upright vacuums are hard to find (more on that later).

We bought ours at Harvey Norman, which has a full range of Dyson, Nilske, etc. I didn't notice that uprights were difficult to find. They seemed to have both kinds in abundance.

Most rooms only have two electrical outlets, each accommodating only one plug.

I think that's an older house thing, though ours has an abundance of plugs. But like older homes in the US they are rare on exterior walls.

Windows are single-paned and don?t have screens.

Having no screens does take getting used to. I am surprised, though, by how few bugs we've found in the house. When it gets warm, we leave the windows, the front door, and the French doors on the back wide open. I think the wind blows them all away.

Rentals usually do not include ?whiteware? (fridge, microwave, washer and dryer - no matter the color).

True, though they can be had for weekly rental at a reasonable price.

And clothes dryers* are rarer than unicorns, even high end homes have clotheslines. When we purchased one, the salesman said we wouldn?t need an extended warranty because we would only need to use the dryer in the winter.

I'm not sure about the rarity of clothes dryers. I've seen a fairly good selection of them at Harvey Norman, Noel Leeming, PowerStore, etc. If you're expecting your rental to include one, though, you'll be disappointed.

*Only one brand of dryer sheets is available and they smell like the inside of a New York taxi cab in July.

I have experienced neither, so I can't comment.

99% of vacuum cleaners here are canisters which can be stored more easily than uprights in tight quarters. Most vacuums don?t have beater brushes (think just the upholstery attachment), so only surface dirt is removed. Huge ick, right? We bought an upright Dyson, ran it over the carpet throughout our rental, and emptied the canister four times on the initial run.

I can't disagree with any of this, except to say that beater brushes can be had depending on the model of vacuum one purchases--not unlike in the US.

I wish I had filled up the extra space in our container with the following: toilet paper, paper towels, Oxiclean, Mr. Clean Magic Erasers, Soft Scrub, dryer sheets. Wet and dry Swiffer cloths can be found but cost a fortune. New Zealand cleaning products do not clean. They push the dirt and grime around and leave a streaky mess. Do not pack anything flammable, but do give consideration to any other cleaning items. You?ll thank me.

Paper products do come at a premium here. Though I confess to being a big consumer of toilet paper, I've never been one for paper towels, so their price hasn't really mattered to me. As to the availability of cleaning products, I think one of the issues here is that NZ stores don't have the quality of homogeneity. That is, each grocery store has cleaning supplies, but even within the chain you will find a variation in the range of products carried. Store to store the variation is even greater. There may very well be *one* Woolworth's in Chch that carries Oxiclean ... and it will be the only one. I've found only two places that sell gel deodorant (as opposed to spray or roll on). Both are parts of larger chains and other stores in the chain don't stock it. That takes some getting used to when one is accustomed to being able to walk into any Wal-Mart, Target, RiteAide, Walgreens, etc. etc. and find that from Maine to Washington 90% of the products are identical.

I do have a huge problem with the quality of NZ laundry detergent. I've yet to find one at any price that actually works well. Tide certainly spoiled me. I've given in and buy whatever is on sale.

I hope others in the forum will mention aspects I may have overlooked. This post was written merely to prepare others for what they will encounter as new residents of this country.

Hear hear! Forewarned is forearmed. (Whatever that means.)

New Zealand is not paradise. Or maybe it is. I don't know. Ask 5 different people what heaven will be like and you'll get 5 different answers--and if they were all true, it probably wouldn't be heaven for anyone!

I knew--thanks to this forum and others I've visited and books I've read and articles I've found elsewhere--that life here would be different. I had a suspicion that it would be a lower standard of living but a higher quality of life. That's what I've found. Believe me, I'm as good a shopper as most in the US--I really miss being able to spend an hour or so hunting around TJ Maxx or Marshall's for a sweet deal on a Joseph Aboud shirt--but I don't miss having little else to do on a Saturday than wish I was someplace else.

I've been working on an post about questions potential migrants should ask themselves before leaving home. It keeps getting longer and longer ... But a key one is, 'How do you deal with life's little annoyances?'

Please don't take that as an implied attack against anyone's character--believe me, I have enough character flaws to fill a novel by Tolstoy. If dealing with them--the minor annoyances, that is--were easy, there'd be no self-help books, and probably no religion too. (I didn't intend to riff on John Lennon there.)

Rather, it's a real issue. People who don't deal well with things back at home probably shouldn't try out an expat lifestyle. No one should come here thinking that NZ is enough like the US that they won't notice the difference every single day.

But, then again, I'd be disappointed if it were the same.

[KiwiHopeful]

Oops ... one thing that I did want to add but forgot in all my soapboxing ...

Newer homes here do have the amenities one would expect in a middle-class house in the US. They don't have the 2,100 square foot McMansions, if that's what you're after, but I have looked at places with nice kitchens, central heat (via heatpump), 2+ bathrooms, walk-in closets, etc. etc.

Also, I do want to add that we're not entirely sold either. Before we came we committed ourselves to being here for 2-3 years (if possible), believing that it would take that long for us to really be able to judge if NZ was for us. Beside not being able to find a teaching job, I've yet to encounter a 'deal breaker' at this point. But, it's only been four months, so ...