Dealing with Family Resistance...

[Dawn]

I disagree with MB on some things here. I don't agree with carrot dangling especially just to make people feel better. Mean what you say and say what you mean or it could come back to haunt you. Be honest. It's always the hardest thing to do because for some reason a lot of people have a problem dealing with it, it's as if they'd prefer a coloured, pretend version of things so that they don't have to face the reality. But by giving them what they want you make it more difficult for them in the long run and you're not being true to yourself. It's you who wakes up with yourself every morning isn't it. If you're honest, and it's always hard for everyone when you are, at least they will know you tell it like it is, with nothing kept back and they will come to realise (even if it is too late) that no matter how it made them feel at the time, you had enough respect and sensitivity for their feelings not to lead them up the garden path.

I don't agree with throwing accusations about either. It's futile. The key here is that everyone is emotionally upset. Everyone is dealing with these emotions in their personal way. No one likes change. Especially when they're forced into it. It's frightening and threatening, it means uncertainty. It's like throwing a pebble into a pond isn't it, the ripples stretch far from the point of impact. Most people like the same things to happen day to day so that they don't have to question themselves about anything. You're moving away raises many questions for the people close to you and the upset they are feeling may not even be about you, maybe your action has acted like a catalyst for them to address things they should have done before now and they, sub-consciously, are using your 'news' as an easy way out to blame someone else for the uneasiness they are feeling. If they want to call you names or make accusations against you, stand back and let them get on with it or smile at them and say 'I'm going to ignore what you just said because I know in my heart that you don't mean it and that when you've had time to really deal with things you will regret having said it too.' Be empathic, tender and considerate. Then go home and hug your son and have a cry and know that you have acted with the utmost decency.

I don't think it's that they are trying to hurt you even if they set about to do just that. They are desparate and desparate people resort to desparate measures. You must know that ultimately they are behaving in this way because they love you. It's just that people aren't very good at loving others unconditionally. Love makes people selfish because they are so scared of being without it. Remind your mum of how it felt when she held you for the first time. If she was anything like me I bet she was thinking that this tiny being that had grown inside her was the most beautiful and miraculous thing she had ever seen. I bet she looked at you and wanted to give you the world, the moon and the stars. Well now she can. By letting you go. It's the culmination of all her love for you. If you handle this sensitively and be strong for her, it could just make your relationship deeper.

She's angry because she's scared. So is your brother, he just either doesn't realise it or isn't owning up to it. Be honest, be kind and be strong. Be able to leave for NZ with your dignity in tact. It's the only way.

[ShellBda]

I haven't spoken to Bermy Girl yet as I just got off the phone with my mother. I knew my mother wasn't overjoyed about my decision to leave Bermuda and move to NZ. I was kidding myself in thinking that she was handling it well. I just spoke to her and decided to bite the bullet and tell her about the house Bermy Girl and I are buying in Palmy North. Her answer to my news was "Okay". I thought she misunderstood and thought I meant we were going to buy a house. I told her "We actually have found a house and have signed an Offer to Buy". She said "mm hmm". I said "Mom, I have been honest with you from the start because I know it won't be easy for you but I wanted you to have the time to get somewhat used to the idea." She started to cry and I could tell she was trying to hold it in. I am now sitting here feeling like the worst person in the world and wanting to cry myself.

She made some comments that to her may seem valid but to me they were just excuses or cop outs to her true feelings. She has known that I have wanted to leave Bermuda for a long time but the timing was never right or I was too afraid to leave the security I feel here. She said she knew that I wanted to leave but didn't realize that I wanted to leave here so badly that I would move so far away. I told her that I did not choose NZ because of the distance. My moving has nothing to do with trying to get as far away as possible. I need to live somewhere I will feel accepted, somewhere I will feel comfortable in my own skin, somewhere I can drive and somewhere I can afford to move to. I lived in the US with my then husband and was too afraid to drive. I have no desire to live in the US. I could move to Ireland or England or Europe but I have no desire to and apart from relatives in Ireland, I don't know anyone in that part of the World. I could go on and on but suffice it to say she is not happy and thinks I am moving to the end of the world.

The problem is, I know what is driving her feelings and I understand why she feels the way she does. But, I wanted her to admit to me that some of the reasons she does not want me to move are selfish reasons because she kept making it sound like she was upset because I would have her or my brother around if there was an emergency. I told her that a lot of my reasons for moving were selfish on my part but that I had not really made any decisions for myself since before I moved in with my husband in 1991. I have been divorced for 7 years and now have my little boy. I am older now and financially able to support such a move.

She is afraid of being alone. I know that and I told her that she needed to tell me that so that we could deal with her fear together. She kept going on about it being a 6 hours flight from her home to LA and then another 12 hours to NZ. I told her that between the two of us she could make that trip once a year or once every other year and she could visit my brother on alternate years.

My mother and I are extremely close and have been since my father died 10 years ago. My parents left Bermuda when I was 20 and moved to Massachusetts. My brother moved from Bermuda to Georgia when he was 17. He is now 38 yrs old and I have seen him 3 times since he was 17! I see my mother once a year! I asked my mother do I just stay here in Bermuda, carry on with my mundane life just so that her and my brother can feel secure in the knowledge that I am nearby?

I haven't even made the move yet and I am sitting here and my heart is breaking and I already feel guilty for wanting to leave my family. I feel guilty because I am leaving my mother to be alone. The strange thing is, my brother lives about 4 hours flying time from my mother and she has only visited him once in the past 10 years and he has only been to see her maybe 3 times in that time.

I know I am rambling but I am hurting because I am hurting her. She told me at the end of the conversation to go ahead and send her pictures of the house so she could see where we were going to eventually live. She told me she would try but that it was not going to be easy. The selfish part of me wanted it to be easy. I wanted her to say "how wonderful" or "I can't wait to come down and see you" and so on. Just so I could avoid the guilt.

I am still making the move. It has taken me too many years to grow into the person I am now and become the strong and confident woman that I am now. I have come so far in my life through my own perseverance, through heartache and very sad moments in my life. I need to do this. If I don't I will regret it forever.

Well must run as I am starting to choke up again. I made some chocolate chip rasberry bars last night and I think I need a little comfort food.

Thanks for listening.
Shell

[LilAmy]

Hi Shell,

I wish I could give you words of wisdom to make everything feel better but I cant. Your Mum is just going to miss you and worries about you. No offence to the Mums out there but you always think you know us kids best. Sometimes you do but sometimes they just have to let us go and discover things on our own.

It does sounds like she will eventually come round to the idea of things. She is just emotional and scared. Its a positve step that she is interested in what you've bought. Perhaps ask her for ideas on how you can make it your own when you move into it. And involve her in that a bit?

The flight is a tiring one as everyone gets older but at the end of the day it's only a day away. Think where you can get to in the states in a days outing then think if you're on a plane where you can get too. It's not that far in the grand scheme of things. Especially with travel getting much easier.

Man Stu and I moved to the furthest place possible from Edinburgh. We cant really get any further away from our folks and mine have already been to visit and have now said they'll visit us yearly or every second year for a few weeks (gawd help us).

Once they realise how close you really are all that scaredness that they have will go away. It does all take time. Just stick with it as you will need your family support as your moving date draws closer. Dont let them push you away.

I know everyone is different and some may disagree but this is what I would do in your situation and just remember we're all here to support you too

[Glenda]

Hi Shell,

Yes, it does sound like your mum is worried about being alone in an emergency. The saddest thing about emigrating is leaving the family, even harder in your case where the immediate family is few. She does seem the independent type though if you only visit her once a year anyhow ... I'm sure she will come round and hopefully realise that if you and your son are happy then she should be.

I put together a reply to Dawn's earlier post, but I fear it will appear to be hijacking your thread a bit. I feel a bit awkward pasting it on here now after your update. It may be of some interest to someone else reading this thread and going through similar problems.

I disagree with MB on some things here. I don't agree with carrot dangling especially just to make people feel better. Mean what you say and say what you mean or it could come back to haunt you. Be honest. It's always the hardest thing to do because for some reason a lot of people have a problem dealing with it, it's as if they'd prefer a coloured, pretend version of things so that they don't have to face the reality. But by giving them what they want you make it more difficult for them in the long run and you're not being true to yourself.

Ooooh, it is such a tricky subject.

I don't think Mother Bear, or I for that matter, were suggesting anyone should trick their parents by 'dangling a carrot' - most parents are not so stupid as to have the wool pulled over their eyes by their own kids (unfortunately .). The fact is that you are going to a new country to start a new life and you may love it here like a pig in muck, be first in line for citizenship, and never want to set foot again on the country of birth. Then again, it might not work out for you - you may dislike the place straight away or after the 'honeymoon', find yourself financially struggling, or surprisingly homesick. Nothing is set in stone ... whether you like it or not, your feelings and experiences in NZ during the first few months will determine whether you stay or not, you will go through a 'trial' period.

Moving home/emigrating is a bit like getting married. You expect it to be for life, or the long term at least. It is important to have the optimism and certainty that that will be the case ... I certainly had it when we moved here, and am just as set to stay here. However, looking at the bigger picture, some people do find things not as they would wish, do go 'home', and do accept their move to NZ as an adventure at best or an financial disaster at worst.

Accepting it could all go pear-shaped is not what anyone wants to consider when emigrating (certainly spoils the high!), but it could happen and admitting that to parents who probably think you are making a big mistake anyhow is acknowledging, if not acting on, their feelings. It also leaves the door open for you to come 'back to the fold' - comforting for them (and maybe you).

Our experience with the father-in-law was more extreme than most. The facts and photos of how much better NZ would be for the kids fell on deaf ears. Knowing how important our family was to him, we eagerly discussed the subjects of regular phone calls, bringing him to visit us in NZ, and us visiting him in the UK .... but it was all met with disapproval. As far as he was concerned, it was not going to happen. He made life hell for us - took legal action against us saying he gave us hundreds of thousands of pounds (he was a farm stockman and never ever had that sort of money), that he had various oral agreements with us, etc. and he managed to get an order preventing us selling our house until this legal action has been sorted out. It was all total fabrication, and he obviously could not give any proof, but he did not care - he was counting on us giving up our dreams before it went to Court. He refused to turn up to the first two Hearings saying he was not well. His solicitors dumped him when he refused to pay his then 27,000 pound bill; they send the baliffs round and we said we would pay the baliffs off if he dropped his case and let us sell the house, he said he would, then said afterwards 'sod off'. He didn't even stop there - he told everyone how evil we were, said we beat the children and that he was going to social services to get them taken away from us. He even dyed his grey hair so he could look younger for adopting them. All through this we were amazingly calm and understanding - he would ignore me so it was useless me talking to him and anytime my husband spoke to him he would ring up his doctor for an appointment saying we were making him ill, so we had to just leave it to solicitors. At the end, though, he was even telling people we were planning to kill him - I was terrified we would be arrested and the kids taken away.

On the day we left the UK, he tearfully hugged us all, gave the kids little 'heirlooms' and waved us off as if none of the horrible things before had ever happened. I don't know, however, how much of a coincidence it was that after one very happy month here in NZ, my husband happened to go back to the UK to sort things out, have a breakdown and decide to stay there with his father.

As I said, this is an extreme example of a parent refusing to 'let go'. I think very few people indeed would have an experience similar to this. The worst I have heard is where the mother would work herself up into anxiety attacks before and after the move, precipitating a move 'back home'.

Feel I am rambling on a bit now ... but I do wonder if we had said that we would have a trial period in NZ, see if we liked it, whether he could have accepted that better than what he saw as our complete rejection of him and the UK.

Isn't life fun?

[Bermy Girl]

Wow Glenda, that is some story and my hats off to you for surviving all that, you are obviously a remarkably strong woman!!! I shall attempt to take a page from your book and tread gently, but firmly into this subject with my family with a bit more courage. I think you're absolutely right about the possibility that things may not work out the way we want and we may not be able to stay as we plan. I shall try to express all of this while still remaining firm about my dreams. If that makes any sense...

Shell...I'm right there with you mate...one day I shall grow some balls and talk to my mum...I know how awful it feels...

[LilAmy]

Oh my gawd Dawn. Wow how on earth are you still sane after that??

Good on you for sticking to your guns. It just shows you that if you want something and are determined enough to fight for it you will come through glowing in the end!

People do tend to forget how strong they actually are until instances like this come up. Well done you...

I am glad you stood firm and stayed in NZ as it obviously makes you and the kids happy.

[Welshgirl]

I think that should be 'Oh My God Glenda'

Ditto your comments though - be strong people

[MotherBear]

Originally Posted by Dawn

I disagree with MB on some things here. I don't agree with carrot dangling especially just to make people feel better.

It's called 'coating the pill', Dawn and if it helps folks to cope better with the situation I'm all for it as long as it's not downright lying because, as you say, it can come back and bite you.

When you consider how many people immigrate each month around the world, there must be one hell of a lot of anguish and hurt going on, but, as these people still seem to make it to their desired destination, there must be a way of dealing with it.

Glenda/Shell - I must get some more 'hugs' smileys. I'm running out.

[Dawn]

Jeez Glenda! What a nightmare! But I am becoming less and less surprised about how many grown ups I come across that have never actually grown up. That must have been a terrible experience for you, I've heard of people doing extreme things but that is just off the scale! You did amazingly well to keep yourself and your family together through what must have been a harrrowing time. Thank God it's all in the past eh?

MB, I didn't mean to be rude and I understand perfectly what you're saying. I've even heard myself say quietly a time or two when I haven't known what else to say, 'You never know, we might not be gone that long.' But in my case I know that's not true because even if we don't settle in NZ there's no way we're coming back to the UK.
My dad died when I was 17, my mum has never remarried because my dad was her soul-mate, my sister's a drunk and my mum has her kids, my brothers (3) who all live within an hours drive of my mum never bother to come and see her, one of my brothers, the gay one and the only one who did spend time with her died 5 years ago after being beaten up by homophobic yobs. I am the only safe, strong, solid thing she has (believe it or not). And she still is able to smile at me and say that if I have the confidence to do this then she knows she has done her job right. I know she will miss us terribly, she has so much on her plate. Apart from all the heartache she has to deal with she isn't well and suffers with bad arthritis and a painful condition called fibra myalgia, she struggles to cope physically with the daily regime she sets herself but you will never find her sitting around. She is always out and about usually doing stuff for other pensioners who 'aren't as able as her'! 'Yeah right, my arse! But she has never once accused us of running out on her, of leaving her behind, abandoning her or not considering her. She just tells me to follow my dreams and I know that they are also her secret dreams.
There are so many different scenarios. Each and every person has their own hurt and each and every person has their own solution or not as the case may be. All we can do is be there the best we can, when we can. I don't know what else to say.
All these wonderful people on this forum, each with their own stories to tell and yet most days you'd think just by reading their posts that they are some of lifes lucky ones, dealt a better hand in life than most but that's just not true. Life is suffering but we learn to smile anyway.

[ShellBda]

I sent my mother pictures of the house and a long email with it explaining my feelings to her and telling her that she will never be alone if I have to fly over, drug her and fly her to NZ in a wheelchair (assuming NZIS would let her join me after (if) I gain permanent residence. Otherwise, at least she knows that I am not abandoning her altogether. She sent me an email back and said that she will definitely want to visit me in NZ and that we will do our best to make the whole situation less painful. I feel better now but I do know there are hard times ahead but at least I can be open and honest with her and hopefully she will do the same with me.

Losing my father 10 years ago was the hardest thing I had ever had to deal with in my life, then there was my divorce 6 years ago and most recently losing a man I had fallen in love after finding out that he was not available for me for the long run. So, all in all, despite many tears that have been shed I am still one of the lucky ones. After all, I have my son.

There is always someone else out there who has it harder in life than I do or ever had and it is humbling to have the same people turn around and offer their support.

Glenda, Dawn and everyone else who has responded - what a strong group of individuals. Next to Bermy Girl, I couldn't ask for better support mates than I have found on this forum.

Can you imagine the "tea parties" we could have together?