Simply can't afford to live in NZ

[MotherBear]

Hi Duane,

Good to see you back again. Ooh that rhymes! Must be all these limericks I've been doing.

I think there’s a lot in what you (and Expat) say about money coming to those who really care about it. Probably we all care to a certain extent in that we’d like enough to live comfortably on, but if you REALLY care, you go out and do something about it rather than sitting back, wringing your hands while you wait for someone else to hand you a windfall. Perhaps a second job, swotting up on investments and other money-making ventures, taking stock of your expenditure and that of your household to see if there are any leaks in it that can be plugged, getting rid of any unnecessary expenses like the second car that’s sitting on the drive, but rarely goes anywhere. Especially, watch how others make their money. There are many ways to make money, but you have to be clever at it to succeed and hang onto it. Me, I can hang onto it, just not very good at making it, but at least I’ve got one bit right.

I wouldn’t totally agree that money always finds its way to those who can manage it and utilise it. Look at all the lottery winners who’ve won vast sums and simply blown the lot – completely wasted it. And there are others who earn very good salaries, but still haven’t got 2 cents to rub together because they just can’t hang onto it. It burns a whole in their pocket.

I’ll leave the salary figures to those who know what’s what, but great news that you’re moving forward with your application.

A great British tradition, the digestive biscuit. I’d say they have quite an ‘oaty’ or would it be ‘wheaty’ taste and are quite dry unless dunked into a cuppa. Appears they're called digestives because of the quantity of bicarbonate of soda originally used in their manufacture and this was thought to aid digestion. There are good brands and pretty cardboardy-tasting brands but, of course, the ultimate is the chocolate digestive. Mmmmm.

You can always tell a good Brit - we solve all our problems over a decent cuppa and a biscuit.

[KiwiHopeful]

Duane--

Good to see you around again!

I found this tax calculator from Inland Revenue. Put in a figure and it gives you your total tax. On $100,000 NZD the rate comes out to roughly 30%.

I like the observation you make and agree--it does seem that people who are good at money then think they are good at everything else!

[ExPat]

Originally Posted by KiwiHopeful

Duane--

I found this tax calculator from Inland Revenue. Put in a figure and it gives you your total tax. On $100,000 NZD the rate comes out to roughly 30%.

I would imagine that this is strictly for the salary portion. Add 12.5% GST and property "rates" and you're really above 40% taxation.

Expat

[ExPat]

Originally Posted by MotherBear

Hi Duane

I wouldn?t totally agree that money always finds its way to those who can manage it and utilise it. Look at all the lottery winners who?ve won vast sums and simply blown the lot ? completely wasted it. And there are others who earn very good salaries, but still haven?t got 2 cents to rub together because they just can?t hang onto it. It burns a whole in their pocket.

Well I think you proved my point MotherBear. If a person wins millions in a lottery and they lose it within a week, a month or a year then its clearly left the "unworthy" person and found it's way to the "proper" person.


I've been meaning to try to explain the concept of money to you all so here's a try...

Let's clear up a few things. When you have $100 or $500 NZD sitting in your wallet or purse what do those pieces of paper mean?

For a person with a primitive understanding of money, it means exchanging a $100 bill for perhaps a cart full of groceries.

For a more sophisticated person with a more advanced understanding of money, a $100 bill might be a unit of exchange to acquire items or an instrument of investment that can grow to a larger amounts of money when properly managed.

For me, a $100 NZD note (or $100 USD note) is a WORTHLESS piece of paper issued by a bankrupt central bank. People seem to spend countless hours trying to accumulate more pieces of paper or add more computer generated journal entries which designate how much paper notes you "own." Any NZD/USD/BP/EURO note is a worthless piece of paper which people have been conditioned to accept for the fruits of their labor.

So a real understanding of "money" a.k.a paper notes is that it is nothing more than a unit measure of a man's or woman's daily labor.

If I were to walk into a town square with $50000 NZD in cash, I could conceivable compel people to do all sorts of silly and crazy things in exchange for those paper notes.

So when I talk about vast amounts of money finding its way into the proper hands what I'm really talking about is control of vast amount of human labor. Whether this "money" compels people to change environmental laws, evokes political champions, or compels a person to draw a work of art or sing a song; "money" is all about control of human labor.

When Dawn speaks of art, it seems to escape her that perhaps the greatest work of art is this fanciful control of vast amounts of human labour around the world by a handful of people in partnership with a handful of central banks.

Isn't the point of art to inspire or influence people? The whole "money" system seems to inspire, influence and compel the worlds population.

The ExPat

[duane1x]

Originally Posted by ExPat

I would imagine that this is strictly for the salary portion. Add 12.5% GST and property "rates" and you're really above 40% taxation.

Expat

Can anyone clarify when the 12.5% GST is charged? Does this apply to rent? I am thinking not, if it is like US sales tax.

We will definitely be renting, at least to start and get our feet on the ground. And what of these "rates" - that sounds like something that would apply to homeowners, like property tax. So another thing to put on the "don't worry about me" list.

Sounds like in the end if you make 50K and take home 40K, then you might spend half of that on rent. That would be 400/wk which I believe will rent a fine place. The point being that if that 20K is not charged GST then only the remaining 20K is actually going to be taxed GST when spent on goods and services as it almost certainly will be in its entirety. That's about 2K of GST paid and 18K left for buying insurance and electricity and most importantly puppy food and digestives. I think the chocolate kind sound best.

[duane1x]

Originally Posted by ExPat

a WORTHLESS piece of paper issued by a bankrupt central bank.

You sound like a libertarian?

I was doing some Google searches on NZ tax and it appears that NZ does not have a capital gains tax at all. There are fine points to it for individuals, and I only scratched the surface but that should warm your low tax desiring heart. Apparently no corporate capital gains tax whatsoever. Here are a few links:

Phil Kerpen on the Corporate Capital-Gains Tax on NRO Financial

Tax Policy Center | Publications

[Taffy]

GST is charged only by companies who are GST registered. You will usually pay GST on all your household bills, groceries, even cars. Businesses are only required to register for GST if their turnover is above a certain level ($46,000p/a i believe).

If you have a company, you can claim GST back on all purchases made for that business.

I'm afraid if you want to live in a small nation, you've got to pay the price! You could always move to the UK, where the GST (called VAT there) is 17.5% on all purchases! Or you might want to consider Germany, where you pay 40% tax on all your income!

It's no wonder so many people cant understand this argument. If you come from the UK, paying just 12.5% GST is great, coming from the US you think its aweful. Tax is comparable to the UK, except you dont get a personal allowance, but compared to the US it seems to be extortionate.

There's a firm and true solution to this whole thing - one size most definitely does not fit all.

[Dawn]

Originally Posted by ExPat

For a person with a primitive understanding of money, it means exchanging a $100 bill for perhaps a cart full of groceries.
For a more sophisticated person with a more advanced understanding of money, a $100 bill might be a unit of exchange to acquire items or an instrument of investment that can grow to a larger amounts of money when properly managed.
When Dawn speaks of art, it seems to escape her that perhaps the greatest work of art is this fanciful control of vast amounts of human labour around the world by a handful of people in partnership with a handful of central banks.
Isn't the point of art to inspire or influence people? The whole "money" system seems to inspire, influence and compel the worlds population.
The ExPat

I nearly went then. I felt something like a writhing snake struggle from my stomach to my throat and threaten to take control of my fingers on the keyboard but.......I took a deep breath and have instead decided to go off and meditate about the anguish I am feeling.

[MotherBear]

Steady, Dawn! An hour's meditation should be good for both you and your anguish (I hope ).

We've already seen this thread in flames a couple of times, so let's hope it doesn't flare up again.

C'mon now. Big breaths.

Yeth and I'm only thixteen - remember that old one? Why's that smiley's eyes blinking so rapidly?

[Dawn]

Originally Posted by MotherBear

Why's that smiley's eyes blinking so rapidly?

Coz like I said before, that's the boobie squeezing smiley!

I have thought, I have been for a run, I have listened to some music and I have straightened some stuff in my head and now I am going to channel all of my energy positively into the dance workshop I have tonight.

They took all the trees and put em in a tree museum
Then they charged all the people a dollar and a half just to see em
Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you got till it's gone
They paved paradise and put up a parking lot