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Thread: The Maori

  1. #1
    tottefan is offline Senior Member
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    Default The Maori

    Do you feel uncomfortable/ashamed of the fact that white Europeans slaughtered Maoris on mass just a century ago? Do you feel that the present NZ government is doing enough to appease and satisfy any rights that the Maori have?

    I suppose that there must still be a lot of resentment as thousands of Maoris were killed so that Europeans could settle in NZ. Being only a century ago, and the Maori being denied many rights (i.e. education) by white Europeans until relatively recently, surely this issue is still a rather worrying and topical issue. Do you think that, in general, Maoris still harbour a deep hatred and resentment towards Europeans?


    Tottefan.

  2. #2
    moggy's Avatar
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    Default The Maori

    I think they got treated pretty badly, however I also think that they should now draw a line under it all.
    History is littered with similar stories.
    Perhaps we should in the UK seek financial compensation from the Danish or french governements or the italians for that matter for the invasion of the UK in the past?
    The Maori alive today, were not the ones who were wronged, yes it shouldn't have happened, but it did, that cannot be changed.
    Who is more entitled to the land - those who cleared it and have culitvated it the last 150 years, or those who had it for 600 years previously, but did not cultivate it?
    The most recent case that I have heard is that the Maori are now trying to claim all native species as belonging to them - if you wanted to grow any native crops you would have to pay for the privaledge of doing so.

    Whilst I believe they were entitled to compensation, I also believe that on the whole they have been given a fair amount.

    This probably seems harsh, but in general I believe that we should learn from the past and move on.
    I am also against rememberance day, holding 2 minute silences for victims of distasters etc The past should be left as that

  3. #3
    SteveyC's Avatar
    SteveyC is offline Right Royal Pain In The Posterior
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    Default The Maori

    Sorry but that's the way the world ran back then. How do you think the Maori got the land originally, they weren't the first inhabitants of islands.

    Always makes me smile when people talk about races slaughtering each others and racism etc etc. Surely if everyones the same and the coloour of the skin doesn't matter then, they were just killing thousands of their own kind, humans, so why the vicitmisation?

    Just a socialogical twist on things either way.

    As for slaughtering thousands so they could settle....we don't slaughter kiwis so we can settle....cos they let us in. It's called civilisation, there was plenty of space for the europeans to settle, why the conflict?

    Also how could they deny rights...they brought the 'rights' to the islands when they brought education, medication etc etc. They didn't deny them rights to meet in there funky meeting houses or live in tribes in hills and worship random 'gods of the land'.

    Don't get me wrong I'm sure people were needlessly slaughtered in cold blood or for persoanl gain, but why tar every white european who ever sets foot in NZ with the same brush and certainly, why should we still bear the brunt of resentment today, it wasn't my fault, or yours.

    Man I don't resent Scanidnavians for coming over and kicking our candy savage asses when they conquered Britain. Swedish footie managers irritate me somewhat tho for sure. :icon_mrgreen:

    *off soapbox* you did ask mate hehe.

  4. #4
    tottefan is offline Senior Member
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    Default The Maori

    Perhaps the major difference is that thsi only happened in recent history. It was our great grand parent's generation who committed these immoral (and unjust) killings. Being only a few generations ago, and also the resulting persecution that has followed, surely this is more relevant than, say, other invasions/wars that happened in history?


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  5. #5
    SteveyC's Avatar
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    Default The Maori

    Nah sorry mate, there's no difference. I'm with Moggy (we must have been writing simultaneously as I didn't see her post before posting), the past is the past and after a generation compensation should not be a factor anymore. In an ideal world they'd be no war but there is and we can't start compensating people left right and centre for the effects of it.

    It's like Iraq, all the talk of compensating the people etc. it's crazy. With all the media coverage Soldiers are getting blamed wrongly for things they do in the heat of battle and treated retrospecitively it's just crazy.

    (I'm not talking about the torture and humiliation of prisoners here tho, there are lines are that's the other side.)

  6. #6
    tottefan is offline Senior Member
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    Default The Maori

    Although it could be argued that it did happen a couple of generations ago, surely the only way the cycle of poverty, poor education etc. can be broken is through government policy?


    Tottefan.

  7. #7
    Debd's Avatar
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    Default The Maori

    I agree on both thoughts: yes we must all move on and live peacefully together and yes, government policy is a key factor in treating every NZ citizen the same! No segregation!
    Although Stevey, I actually feel 'good' when the soldiers of war are remembered - even if it is by force to some extent, because as a great- grandaughter to a fallen loved one, it does sort of warm my heart to give him proud thought along with many others on November 11th! (In a more spiritual rather than religious way!).......

  8. #8
    Glenda's Avatar
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    Default The Maori

    Has anyone actually read the history books about the settlement of New Zealand?

    The British did not go into NZ slaughtering all Maori who did not consent to European immigration. The Maori were taken advantage of in the aquisition of land and resources, then there was the war between the Maori and European settlers, but the British were quick to realise that the Maori were a strong fighting force, especially in their entrenched pa defences which left many British soldiers dead and Maori unscathed. A Treaty was made between the two parties, not a surrender from the Maori.

    The Maori were a tough warrior people who regularly fought (and ate) each other. Disease probably killed more Maori, as it did in America and Australia when Europeans settled there. The treatment of these people was a lot worse than that of the Maori.

    Maoris in NZ are generally poorer, more likely just to have basic education, and to be unemployed. A high percentage of prison inmates are Maori and they are more likely to be smokers, diabetics and obese. Maori culture is enthusiastically promoted here in NZ, but has degenerated to an imported 'black culture' attitude with a minority of Maori. Nevertheless more Maori do succeed to better lives (economically) and this is increasing with incentives and special programmes for them to go to university or retraining. Schools with a high percentage of Maori are usually the lower decile ones, and attract more government money than others - but the 'culture' in these schools or the kids' homes, means the kids are usually not interested in further education. I have a friend who works in one of these schools and she says the kids go to work in supermarkets, McDonalds etc. after school and weekends then cannot do their homework. They are pushed out to work by their parents or aim themselves to buy a car as soon as they can drive at 15. The Maori kids who usually do best are those at a school with a high percentage of European kids.

    The Maoris have a right by law to claim for a lot of things, which is absolutely right, but many do laugh at the stupid claims that some do try for. There is a tendency here for the more uneducated Maori to think, for example, if a large percentage of white NZers have computers and mobile phones then it is the right of Maoris to have those too as they were here first. 'Aotearoa belongs to the Maori' these idiots would shout, yet be absolutely indignant if every European disappeared from the country taking their civilisation with them!

    The Maori are a great people - my friend at school was Maori. Their culture is an integral part of New Zealand and inter-racial relationships common. I would not be surprised if one day most of the population of NZ had some Maori blood in them, or that one day English may become the country's second language. I would assert that many believe their lot is probably better from British settlement other than another country, as it was inevitable the country would be settled by some nation.

    Said too much.

    ;)
    Glenda
    In NZ since June 2005
    Better to light a candle than to curse the darkness - Chinese proverb

  9. #9
    Taffy's Avatar
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    Default The Maori

    Right on the nail there Glenda.

    There was a good programme on TV a while back about the history of NZ. All the compensation claims etc going on are to do with the big 'land grabs' that went on some time ago. The title they use for this (land grabs) does not really fit the act. According to this show, Maori tribe leaders sold out their land to the european settlers through greed. The problem arises because the europeans ripped them off big time, giving very little money/reward for an enormous section of land.

    If this is correct, then the Maori are really being compensated for their ancestors greed and stupidity.

    Who knows.

    I know I've never met a Maori who wasnt anything but nice to me, and as Glenda said, it's only the select few who believe that the white man is evil and everything white folks have should be handed on a plate to them.

    The really stupid thing is though, that the Maori seem to be pushing for segregation, whether they know it or not. It's always a battle for Maori rights, and they've even created a separate electoral role to go on. Maori has the right to be on either the General Role or the Maori Role.

    How long can new generations keep paying for the mistakes of the past?
    Taffy

    The greatest mistake you can make in life is to be continually fearing you will make one.

  10. #10
    SteveyC's Avatar
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    Default The Maori

    Yey!!! I thought all what you said was true before, but didn't feel confident enough in my history to reference the events that specifically. Like Taffy tho, all the Maoris have been really friendly to us so far. If you cross I expect they'd react pretty violently but that's kind of fair enough I think. Nowt wrong with a short fuse and a bit of passion. A bit that is.

    What is it with that electoral role thing? I've seen the adverts but don't understand. What does being on the maori electoral role do for you, or is it just a status thing? Can you be on both?

    Didn't I read somewhere that Asians had just overtaken Maori as the leading ethnic minority? Wasn't it MB who posted something up a while back?

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