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Thread: Not so rosy after all

  1. #1
    tottefan is offline Senior Member
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    Default Not so rosy after all

    Actually what shocked me about NZ is that the statistics don't seem to paint a rosy picture at all.

    Take crime stats - statistically, you are about as likely to be murdered, raped, burgled etc. in NZ as the UK. NZ, for instance, has an average of around 40 murders a year compared to the UK's 600. If, however, you take the population difference into account, NZ would have the same i.e. around 600. In both countires there are the same number of recorded crimes per 100,000. The US, however, has a noticably higher crime rate than both the Uk and NZ.

    Taking family break up - NZ has the highest proportion of single parents in the Western World.

    Taking suicides - only Finland has a higher rate of suicide.

    To be honest, this doesn't really bother me much. I love the sound of the lifestyle and countryside in NZ. I don't really feel that threatened in the UK in any case - perhaps it's because I live in a nice area. I just want somewhere that has nice beaches and a slower pace of life and generally friendly and laid-back people. 8-):


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  2. #2
    moggy's Avatar
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    Default Not so rosy after all

    Where are you getting your statistics from?

    It also depends on how you present them. Looking at the crime figures, if you take them on a per square km, then suddenly the rate is a fraction of the UK.

  3. #3
    tottefan is offline Senior Member
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    Default Not so rosy after all

    I got them from the Official government statistics.

    You're right that per sqaure km then it is a fraction of the Uk. Considering that NZ has vast areas of uninhabited land and a tiny population this, however, doesn't really mean anything. The number of murders, crimes per 100,000 people is as high as the Uk as is the prison population. In other words, if you walk through Auckland or any NZ city you are, statistically at least, as likely to meet a weirdo as you are in a UK city.

    That's what the stats say anyway. ::):


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  4. #4
    Taffy's Avatar
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    Default Not so rosy after all

    What these stats also fail to mention is the relationship between the crime and the people responsible. I'd bet 50%, if not a lot more of the murders are inter-gang murders, triad killings etc. which the average Joe need never be worried about.

    I know it's easy to blame the gangs for everything, but it's all you ever hear about. The only other sad cases of murder you tend to hear about is tourists, who also seem to be prime targets lately.

    I do take some comfort in the fact that with pretty much every murder I've ever heard about, the Police very soon have someone caught for it, which is something you don't hear too often in the UK.

    As for marriages breaking down, single mums etc. Well, I think thats more a sad fact of modern life than something to hold against NZ.
    Taffy

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    Default Not so rosy after all

    I do take some comfort in the fact that with pretty much every murder I've ever heard about, the Police very soon have someone caught for it, which is something you don't hear too often in the UK.
    Do you think this has something to do with the low population count in that a criminal hasn't got the same volume of people to lose him/herself amongst? Smaller communities could also mean that you and your goings on are often well known in the area.
    Mother Bear

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  6. #6
    moggy's Avatar
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    Default Not so rosy after all

    single mums don't necessarily have to be a bad thing either. It could be that girls get more support from their family so don't feel the need to shack up with whoever was irrisponsible enough to get them pregnant in the first place. Plus it doesn't take into account the number of children in the family. Does NZ have the same amount of chaz girls with 5 kids each by a different father???

    I don't know the answer, but one thing I know is that statistics on their own do not give a full picture.

    Also what is the split SI to NI?

  7. #7
    moggy's Avatar
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    Default Not so rosy after all

    Going on what the world health organisation has to say on suicides
    http://www.who.int/mental_health/pre...iciderates/en/

    These have a higher male suicide rate than NZ
    LUXEMBOURG
    CUBA
    BULGARIA
    POLAND
    CZECH REPUBLIC
    FRANCE
    SWITZERLAND
    REPUBLIC OF MOLDOVA
    AUSTRIA
    BELGIUM
    CROATIA
    FINLAND
    JAPAN
    SRI LANKA
    ESTONIA
    KAZAKHSTAN
    HUNGARY
    SLOVENIA
    UKRAINE
    LATVIA
    BELARUS
    RUSSIAN FEDERATION
    LITHUANIA


    And these have a higher female suicide rate than NZ
    SURINAME
    GERMANY
    SWEDEN
    DENMARK
    REPUBLIC OF KOREA
    KAZAKHSTAN
    INDIA
    BULGARIA
    YUGOSLAVIA
    FRANCE
    MAURITIUS
    BELARUS
    CHINA (Hong Kong SAR)
    AUSTRIA
    SWITZERLAND
    UKRAINE
    CROATIA
    LUXEMBOURG
    BELGIUM
    FINLAND
    ESTONIA
    LATVIA
    RUSSIAN FEDERATION
    CUBA
    HUNGARY
    SLOVENIA
    JAPAN
    CHINA (Selected rural & urban areas)
    LITHUANIA
    SRI LANKA

  8. #8
    tottefan is offline Senior Member
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    Default Not so rosy after all

    single mums don't necessarily have to be a bad thing
    I agree. ?My cousin is a single mother with 4 kids and they are all very well behaved. ?She cares about them more than most mother do. ?There are also far too many bad families with 2 parents.

    To be honest all this rubbish about computer games/tv being the cause of bad behaviour is a load of crap. ?It all boils down to the parents - if they indulge and fail to discipline their kids properly then they inevitably will grow up to be brats. ?My parents never hit or smacked me, but I knew the boundaries and I was never showered with gifts. ?

    A fine illustration of the above is the current situation in the non-western world. ?Many non-western countries are more traditional in outlook and have lower divorce rates, more people get married etc. but they still have as many social problems, if not more, than Western countries. ?

    Personally, I think it is always preferable to stay married but if people find themselves constantly arguing all the time and have tried many to tackle their marital issues, then I think in such cases divorce is justified. ?

    Going on what the world health organisation has to say on suicides
    I guess there are so many different surveys out there and they all say something different. ?For instance, a UN report says that NZ is the most violent nation on the planet - more violent than the US, South Africa, Uk, Iraq etc. ?

    The government stats produced by both the UK and NZ governments still suggest that both countries have roughly the same issues. ?I suppose you cannot really argue on the number of murders reported so I suppose the comparison must be pretty accurate. ?


    Tottefan.

  9. #9
    tottefan is offline Senior Member
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    Default Not so rosy after all

    I suppose NZ probably feels 'nicer' because of all the open space, laid-back atmosphere and low population - rather like the US and UK used to feel, with uncongested roads and cleaner streets (and friendlier people [smiley=icon_biggrin.gif] ). This can result in a false sense of security and make people feel it is different when, in all probablitiy, it probably isn't. That's my take on it anyway.

    Either way I'm not really bothered. NZ, it seems, isn't any better or any worse than the UK. I think my lifestyle will improve in many ways, such as being able to go and laze on a beach every weekend and being able to explore the gorgeous countryside. 8-)

    At least in NZ you can truly get away from it all, what with the stunning scenery and low population density. [smiley=icon_biggrin.gif]


    Tottefan.

  10. #10
    moggy's Avatar
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    Default Not so rosy after all

    Sorry I wasn't trying to rubbish you post, just show, well to be honest .....as they say there are lies, dammned lies and statistics. They can show whatever you want to know.

    thinks like 1 in 5 immigrants to NZ go home is said to show it has a high failure rate. However you could equally say 4 in 5 stay therefore it has a high success rate.

    As you say, it is all how you view things. We are going to be out in the sticks, so I am fairly confident that crime will not be a huge issue for us. I was brought up in a high crime city and I am used to locking my doors when I leave, and I doubt that habit will change.

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