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Thread: Family Sponsored Visa Question

  1. #1
    Tribesman's Avatar
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    Default Family Sponsored Visa Question

    I know this one is a tough one to answer, but i am hoping there is someone on this forum that might be able to help.

    My circumstances have changed since my wife and i applied for residency 2 years ago. Our Son sponsored us. Now we cannot sell our house (living in west of Ireland) and we were depending on this money to fund ourselves until i got my retirement money from UK and Ireland.
    We are going to visit our Son/Wife Feb.2012 for 3 weeks and will activate visa and returning home again. What we were hoping to do was return again before visa run our Feb. 2014 and i retire Jan. 2014. So i was wondering what our situation would be if we were to return just before visa had expired. Could we still stay in NZ or what new circumstances would arise. Hope someone can shed some light on this. I remember reading something similar on forum some time ago. Had a look at immigration site, but its just too complicated to understand.

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    Tribesman

    A residency visa is not like an open ticket. Immigration will look at how much time you are spending in NZ. You will get an initial period on your visa. They won't extend that if you are not spending time here. Years ago people would file for their visa then at then end of the visa period come back for a day to get it renewed with no expiration date. NZIS saw what was going on and put in measures to stop the abuse years ago.

    Immigration will give you a year easy to relocate as moving to a new country can take time. My best suggestion is to talk to your NZIS case officer as they will know the rules much better. They are not monsters and can be very helpful. Also the rules change all the time and you could find yourself out in the cold in a few years because the rules today will not be the rules tomorrow.
    Cheers

    Cliff

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    NZ Citizenship in 2000, been in NZ 15 years now
    Arrived NZ in 1997 from Las Vegas, Nevada, USA

    "New Zealand isn't just a physical place it is a state of mind."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cliff View Post
    Tribesman

    A residency visa is not like an open ticket. Immigration will look at how much time you are spending in NZ. You will get an initial period on your visa. They won't extend that if you are not spending time here. Years ago people would file for their visa then at then end of the visa period come back for a day to get it renewed with no expiration date. NZIS saw what was going on and put in measures to stop the abuse years ago.

    Immigration will give you a year easy to relocate as moving to a new country can take time. My best suggestion is to talk to your NZIS case officer as they will know the rules much better. They are not monsters and can be very helpful. Also the rules change all the time and you could find yourself out in the cold in a few years because the rules today will not be the rules tomorrow.

    Thanks for reply Cliff,
    I will have to do some thinking of what i am going to do now because i have 2 years left to retire. The housing market here has gone down the tubes since i applied for visa which leaves us without the ready cash. Oh well , maybe i might try for work, might be a solution.

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    We are in a similar position but not for the same reason. We've been granted residency in principle but are dragging things out as much as possible because hubby wants to work a few more years before finally retiring to NZ. We have until April 2012 to send our passports in to get the stickers and pay the Migrant Levy and then another 12 months to activate the visa and we intend to exploit this time lapse as long as possible. If hubby still wants to work beyond that we'll have to work this out carefully so we don't lose the visa by default. Are you able to stretch your timeline out in this way or is Feb. 2012 when your 12 months is up for activation? It might buy you some time although it would mean putting off your holiday with your son.

    I get the impression that, if you can't meet the '6 months in NZ in each of the first 2 years' requirement, you need to meet one of several other requirements that show you are committed to the country, which you will find in here from page 5 on entitled Requirements for a permanent resident visa. We already have a home in NZ and it may be that I will have to stay there alone, as the principal applicant, for the time mentioned in that link to ensure that my husband, if he wants to continue working, will get permanent residence when I get it. Or we may try staying out of NZ one more year after we've activated and then go down to start meeting the 6-month requirement a year late which, I hope, will still be acceptable to INZ. I'm not sure how they would look on it if you left it to the last minute to take up residence in NZ. I haven't had time to go through the list of requirements for permanent residency (used to be referred to as getting your Indefinite Returning Residents visa) thoroughly yet so I don't know if they have changed much during the INZ revamp. Generally, INZ will be looking for signs of commitment from you but I think they probably realise that things don't always go smoothly when moving from one life to a new one. If you managed to get to NZ and complete at least the second lot of 6 months in the country and then approach them to be allowed to do the final 6 months in the following year ie. the 3rd year of your residency, they may well look favourably on you but, as Cliff says, it would be just as well to check this out with your case officer. If you don't make it back to do either of the 6 months, it's up to INZ to decide whether to grant you permission to continue if they think you genuinely intend to settle in NZ but it could be a bit of a struggle convincing them.

    Sorry if all this makes no sense. I'm trying to decipher it myself.
    Mother Bear

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    Quote Originally Posted by MotherBear View Post
    We are in a similar position but not for the same reason. We've been granted residency in principle but are dragging things out as much as possible because hubby wants to work a few more years before finally retiring to NZ. We have until April 2012 to send our passports in to get the stickers and pay the Migrant Levy and then another 12 months to activate the visa and we intend to exploit this time lapse as long as possible. If hubby still wants to work beyond that we'll have to work this out carefully so we don't lose the visa by default. Are you able to stretch your timeline out in this way or is Feb. 2012 when your 12 months is up for activation? It might buy you some time although it would mean putting off your holiday with your son.

    I get the impression that, if you can't meet the '6 months in NZ in each of the first 2 years' requirement, you need to meet one of several other requirements that show you are committed to the country, which you will find in here from page 5 on entitled Requirements for a permanent resident visa. We already have a home in NZ and it may be that I will have to stay there alone, as the principal applicant, for the time mentioned in that link to ensure that my husband, if he wants to continue working, will get permanent residence when I get it. Or we may try staying out of NZ one more year after we've activated and then go down to start meeting the 6-month requirement a year late which, I hope, will still be acceptable to INZ. I'm not sure how they would look on it if you left it to the last minute to take up residence in NZ. I haven't had time to go through the list of requirements for permanent residency (used to be referred to as getting your Indefinite Returning Residents visa) thoroughly yet so I don't know if they have changed much during the INZ revamp. Generally, INZ will be looking for signs of commitment from you but I think they probably realise that things don't always go smoothly when moving from one life to a new one. If you managed to get to NZ and complete at least the second lot of 6 months in the country and then approach them to be allowed to do the final 6 months in the following year ie. the 3rd year of your residency, they may well look favourably on you but, as Cliff says, it would be just as well to check this out with your case officer. If you don't make it back to do either of the 6 months, it's up to INZ to decide whether to grant you permission to continue if they think you genuinely intend to settle in NZ but it could be a bit of a struggle convincing them.

    Sorry if all this makes no sense. I'm trying to decipher it myself.
    MotherBear I am delighted with the reply and appreciate your explanation which gives me hope. If we did not have to wait so long to get the residency visa, our problem would not have developed: but never the less its great to get it anyhow. My Son is having a baby christening end of Feb.(entering for 23 days holiday) that,s how come we have to activate otherwise we would,ent have to until Sept. which would have given us awhile longer.
    As it is i will have to enter again by Sept. 2012 to complete the 6 months of first year. I am thinking i might try and get work till retirement to keep ticking over if all else fails(Hotel maintenance/caretaker). Or i might try phone case officer sometime next year and see if i could do 6 months of the second year and carry on from there. Either way i must not loose visas. I wish you and yours every bit of luck with your visa, and everything goes well for you.
    Last edited by Tribesman; 24-11-2011 at 09:48 AM.

  6. #6
    till is offline Senior Member
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    What we were hoping to do was return again before visa run our Feb. 2014 and i retire Jan. 2014. So i was wondering what our situation would be if we were to return just before visa had expired. Could we still stay in NZ or what new circumstances would arise.
    The problem is not that you cannot stay in NZ, rather that you cannot travel out and come back to NZ.
    Let's take a look at INZ's Operational Manual, Section R5.66.

    R5.66.1 Travel conditions allowing first entry for applicants overseas when the resident visa is granted

    a. If an applicant is offshore at the time their application for a resident visa is granted, the following travel conditions must be granted to allow their first entry to New Zealand as a resident:
    i. first entry within one year after the grant of the visa, unless the resident visa was granted under the Samoan Quota Scheme (see S1.10.55), or the Pacific Access Category (see S1.40.55);
    [...]
    c. People with resident visas who fail to travel to New Zealand within the validity of their first travel condition must submit a further application for a residence class visa if they still wish to live in New Zealand.
    [...]
    So far, so good. This is the "activation" of your residency, which you are planning for Feb 2012.


    R5.66.5 Travel conditions allowing multiple entries from the first day in New Zealand as a resident

    a. A resident visa may be granted with travel conditions allowing:
    i. multiple entries for two years from the applicantís first day in New Zealand as a resident, unless the visa is grated under the Parent Category (F4)
    ii. multiple entries for five years from the applicantís first day in New Zealand as a resident, if the visa is granted under the Parent Category (F4)
    b. A personís first day in New Zealand as a resident is either:
    i. the day their resident visa is granted in New Zealand; or
    ii. the day they are first granted entry permission on the basis of their resident visa, if they were outside of New Zealand when their resident visa was granted.
    c. If a resident visa holder fails to travel to New Zealand within the validity of their first entry travel condition, their multiple entry travel conditions never become valid.
    d. If the holder of a resident visa wishes to travel to New Zealand outside of the validity of their multiple entry travel conditions and they do not qualify for a permanent resident visa (see RV2), they may apply for a variation of their travel conditions (RV3).
    Assuming your residency is under the Parent Category, you could even have these "travel conditions" for 5 years (can someone confirm that?). That means after your "activation", as a NZ resident, you can come an go as you please.
    Once you are in NZ, you can stay indefinitely as a resident.
    You would lose your residency should you leave NZ without valid (re-newed) "travel conditions" or a "permanent" residency visa.
    And you will get either only under certain conditions MotherBear mentioned (like spending enough time in NZ). I guess most people prefer to do the 2x 6 months thing to get "permanent residency" (formerly Indefinite Returning Residence Visa).
    See also Will I lose my NZ residence status if I travel abroad? and When and how can I apply for a Permanent Resident Visa?

    So, in term of new circumstances: In the last year of your "travel conditions" you might want to be in NZ 6 months if you want new "travel conditions" the year after.
    04/11/09 - EOI selected (125 points, no job offer)
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    03/03/10 - Case officer assigned (requested more documents)
    05/03/10 - Job offer secured (IT)
    12/03/10 - Work permits issued (1 year ISSL, 1 year partnership)
    13/04/10 - INZ Interview (re relationship)
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    Quote Originally Posted by till View Post
    The problem is not that you cannot stay in NZ, rather that you cannot travel out and come back to NZ.
    Let's take a look at INZ's Operational Manual, Section R5.66.

    R5.66.1 Travel conditions allowing first entry for applicants overseas when the resident visa is granted

    a. If an applicant is offshore at the time their application for a resident visa is granted, the following travel conditions must be granted to allow their first entry to New Zealand as a resident:
    i. first entry within one year after the grant of the visa, unless the resident visa was granted under the Samoan Quota Scheme (see S1.10.55), or the Pacific Access Category (see S1.40.55);
    [...]
    c. People with resident visas who fail to travel to New Zealand within the validity of their first travel condition must submit a further application for a residence class visa if they still wish to live in New Zealand.
    [...]
    So far, so good. This is the "activation" of your residency, which you are planning for Feb 2012.


    R5.66.5 Travel conditions allowing multiple entries from the first day in New Zealand as a resident

    a. A resident visa may be granted with travel conditions allowing:
    i. multiple entries for two years from the applicantís first day in New Zealand as a resident, unless the visa is grated under the Parent Category (F4)
    ii. multiple entries for five years from the applicantís first day in New Zealand as a resident, if the visa is granted under the Parent Category (F4)
    b. A personís first day in New Zealand as a resident is either:
    i. the day their resident visa is granted in New Zealand; or
    ii. the day they are first granted entry permission on the basis of their resident visa, if they were outside of New Zealand when their resident visa was granted.
    c. If a resident visa holder fails to travel to New Zealand within the validity of their first entry travel condition, their multiple entry travel conditions never become valid.
    d. If the holder of a resident visa wishes to travel to New Zealand outside of the validity of their multiple entry travel conditions and they do not qualify for a permanent resident visa (see RV2), they may apply for a variation of their travel conditions (RV3).
    Assuming your residency is under the Parent Category, you could even have these "travel conditions" for 5 years (can someone confirm that?). That means after your "activation", as a NZ resident, you can come an go as you please.
    Once you are in NZ, you can stay indefinitely as a resident.
    You would lose your residency should you leave NZ without valid (re-newed) "travel conditions" or a "permanent" residency visa.
    And you will get either only under certain conditions MotherBear mentioned (like spending enough time in NZ). I guess most people prefer to do the 2x 6 months thing to get "permanent residency" (formerly Indefinite Returning Residence Visa).
    See also Will I lose my NZ residence status if I travel abroad? and When and how can I apply for a Permanent Resident Visa?

    So, in term of new circumstances: In the last year of your "travel conditions" you might want to be in NZ 6 months if you want new "travel conditions" the year after.
    So if i was to spend 6 or more months in NZ the last year, what do you think the new travel conditions would be.

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    till is offline Senior Member
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    So, in terms of new circumstances: In the last year of your "travel conditions" you might want to be in NZ for 6 months if you want new "travel conditions" the year after.
    So if i was to spend 6 or more months in NZ the last year, what do you think the new travel conditions would be.
    12 months.
    There are 12 months or 14 days travel conditions, of which you'd probably prefer the former. See here or here.

    Note that not all is lost should you not spend 6 months here, but you will only be allowed to travel for 14 days until you fulfil for example the 6 months requirement.

    So, in short, here is how one could drag it out as long as possible...

    Day X: Grant of residency
    Day Y <= X + 12 months: First entry to NZ
    Day Z <= Y + 2 years (or 5 years, depending on initial travel conditions): Last chance to re-enter
    No (significant) time spent in NZ -> Only 14 days travel conditions
    Z + 1 year: After 1 year in NZ, eligible for (12 months) travel condition
    Z + 2 years: After 2 years in NZ, eligible for (indefinite) permanent residence visa.

    HTH
    04/11/09 - EOI selected (125 points, no job offer)
    30/11/09 - Decision successful
    09/12/09 - ITA received
    23/12/09 - Application submitted
    03/03/10 - Case officer assigned (requested more documents)
    05/03/10 - Job offer secured (IT)
    12/03/10 - Work permits issued (1 year ISSL, 1 year partnership)
    13/04/10 - INZ Interview (re relationship)
    22/05/10 - Approved in Principle
    04/06/10 - Residence Permits issued

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    Thanks a lot, Till. You've put a lot of hard work into those posts. I'll have a look to see if I can find anything about the 5 years' mulitple entry travel conditions. I don't think I've come across that yet as I don't have so much free time now to browse the INZ website like I used to. I'd like to be able to understand how the 5 years works compared to the 2 years. We are using the Parents Category so the 5 years would apply to us.

    Tribesman, I must have misunderstood your comments about retiring in Jan. 2014. I was thinking that you needed to stay in Ireland until your job finished (due to retirement) at that time unless you could sell your house. If there are no constraints regarding your job, with residency in NZ, you would certainly be free to find work there to help your financial situation.
    Mother Bear

    Try to bloom wherever you are planted.

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    till: you have done fantastic work sorting all of this out, and i want to thank you. You certainly have made a few things clear to me. I think i have 2 decisions which look favorable. Try and go to NZ for six months or more 2nd. year and do 6 months in the third year(So the third year i can do 6 months and leave NZ for 6 months) to get permanent residency or in the meantime look into getting some work there, which might not be that easy on account of my age. Would it be necessary to confirm the six month thing with immigration. Thanks again for all your help/
    Last edited by Tribesman; 26-11-2011 at 04:40 AM.

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