Read this if you were born before 1986.......

You oldies might not agree, but I personally find that many middle-aged and older people are incredibly materialistic. ?[smiley=icon_confused.gif] ? Everywhere I go I'm constantly asked by people in their 50s/60s what university I'm studying at, what job I want to apply for. ?They then compare this to their own children's chosen university, occupation and brag about their future prospects. ?Many of my fellow university students also complain that their parents give them a hard time about their grades, telling them that anything less than becoming a well-paid professional will lead to a life of misery and unhappiness. ?[smiley=icon_sad.gif] ?Some have left home because their parents put ?too much pressure on them to achieve academically.

I also work part-time in a shop and don't see many of these 'wonderful, well-balanced' older people. ?Granted, many of the younger customers can be downright rude and disrespectful, but I have also been sworn at by people older than my mother! ?Some look down at you because they think anyone working in a shop must be thick. ?Then there are those who think that they can talk down to you because you are young - and must, therefore be uneducated. ?Having said all that, some of the really old ladies and gents are nice, and most customers are fine. ?[smiley=icon_biggrin.gif]

My old maths tutor once said that you can tell why some children are aggressive and disruptive just by looking at their parents. ?In fact, he told me that quite often the parents are worse and will willingly start a fight if you insult their 'perfect' child. ? [smiley=icon_rolleyes.gif]

That reminds me - our neighbour opposite used the f word at my mum last week because she accidentally knocked his 'precious' car. ?She naturally apologised but he didn't seem interested. ?He was in his 50s, rather like our next door neighbour's sons, who dumped their poor mother in a nursing home and want nothing to do with her. ? [smiley=icon_sad.gif]?

OoOps, I'm digressing again, sorry. [smiley=icon_confused.gif]

Tottefan.

You oldies might not agree, but I personally find that many middle-aged and older people are incredibly materialistic. Everywhere I go I'm constantly asked by people in their 50s/60s what university I'm studying at, what job I want to apply for. Wouldn?t this be counted as general interest in you? They then compare this to their own children's chosen university, occupation and brag about their future prospects. Is it bragging or just family pride showing through that they want to share with you being in a similar position? Many of my fellow university students also complain that their parents give them a hard time about their grades, telling them that anything less than becoming a well-paid professional will lead to a life of misery and unhappiness. Some have left home because their parents put too much pressure on them to achieve academically. I think many of us have been ?guilty of encouraging our kids to perform, knowing full well that this is their chance to make a good start for themselves in life because we won?t always be around to look out for them. It's a kind of panic we feel. I would agree that some parents do go overboard and act as if it?s the be-all and end-all that their child makes the grade.
I also work part-time in a shop and don't see many of these 'wonderful, well-balanced' older people. Granted, many of the younger customers can be downright rude and disrespectful, but I have also been sworn at by people older than my mother! Some look down at you because they think anyone working in a shop must be thick. Then there are those who think that they can talk down to you because you are young - and must, therefore be uneducated. Having said all that, some of the really old ladies and gents are nice, and most customers are fine. You get total prats in all age groups and I don?t think being ?older people? means being naturally ?wonderful and well-balanced. Some are, some aren?t. My point was that most of them don?t go around putting bricks through car windows or behaving like jerks because they?re high on drugs and other things I?ve mentioned previously. That?s not to say you don?t get some that do have a problem
My old maths tutor once said that you can tell why some children are aggressive and disruptive just by looking at their parents. In fact, he told me that quite often the parents are worse and will willingly start a fight if you insult their 'perfect' child. I would agree with this and cite this as an example of what could lie ahead for a lot of the children that will be born to today?s young people who are fuelling the complaints we hear all the time. Having said that about the parents being aggressive and having a knock-on effect on their children, I?ve also known out and out bad children that have had wonderful parents. Sometimes you?re just a bad egg, possibly through being easily led astray.
That reminds me - our neighbour opposite used the f word at my mum last week because she accidentally knocked his 'precious' car. The f word is in such common use now that they might as well make it an acceptable word and devalue it that way. She naturally apologised but he didn't seem interested. He was in his 50s, rather like our next door neighbour's sons, who dumped their poor mother in a nursing home and want nothing to do with her. This can and does happen at any stage of adulthood and isn?t down just to people in their 50?s. I never meant to imply that middle-aged people and older are walking saints. There?s good and bad in every generation and you seem to be picking out odd problems here and there whereas it just seems like the younger element today is getting really bad press for one reason or another. I?m not in the UK much these days (through choice as I don?t like what I see when I do go back) and so much of what I hear is from people who do spend more time there. So many of them that live abroad, like us, usually come back from home visits, shaking their heads in disbelief at ?how bad it is there now? (their words, not mine). I?m bracing myself for another obligatory visit in August to visit family, so I?ll see for myself ? one week in Scotland and one week in Wales. Should be a good comparison, especially as we?re passing through a tiny part of England (Heathrow) on the way.
OoOps, I'm digressing again, sorry. [smiley=icon_confused.gif]

Tottefan.

Wouldn?t this be counted as general interest in you?

No, it's because they are interested in how your university/job compares with their children's. ?There are, of course, exceptions - one middle-aged women asks me such questions at the charity I help out at, but I can tell by her tone and general personality (and previous conversations) that she is only interested in how I'm getting on. ?

Is it bragging or just family pride showing through that they want to share with you being in a similar position?

See above.

I think many of us have been ?guilty of encouraging our kids to perform, knowing full well that this is their chance to make a good start for themselves in life because we won?t always be around to look out for them. It's a kind of panic we feel. I would agree that some parents do go overboard and act as if it?s the be-all and end-all that their child makes the grade.

I'm completely for parents encouraging academic success. ?However, one of my former friends was upset when his father insulted him for getting 10 GCSE a-c passes because he only got 1 A* and 2 As. ?[smiley=icon_confused.gif]:

You get total prats in all age groups and I don?t think being ?older people? means being naturally ?wonderful and well-balanced. Some are, some aren?t. My point was that most of them don?t go around putting bricks through car windows or behaving like jerks because they?re high on drugs and other things I?ve mentioned previously. That?s not to say you don?t get some that do have a problem

I agree there. ?It is, perhaps, hard to compare, though, as old people generally seem sweet and frail anyway - even some of the Nazi war generation who committed horrific acts probably seem sweet and frail now that they are in their 80s! [smiley=icon_neutral.gif] ? I would say, though, that the vast majority of older customers are very nice. ?[smiley=icon_biggrin.gif]

The f word is in such common use now that they might as well make it an acceptable word and devalue it that way.

True, but it was the way that he behaved that was scary.

This can and does happen at any stage of adulthood and isn?t down just to people in their 50?s. I never meant to imply that middle-aged people and older are walking saints. There?s good and bad in every generation and you seem to be picking out odd problems here and there whereas it just seems like the younger element today is getting really bad press for one reason or another. I?m not in the UK much these days (through choice as I don?t like what I see when I do go back) and so much of what I hear is from people who do spend more time there. So many of them that live abroad, like us, usually come back from home visits, shaking their heads in disbelief at ?how bad it is there now? (their words, not mine). I?m bracing myself for another obligatory visit in August to visit family, so I?ll see for myself ? one week in Scotland and one week in Wales. Should be a good comparison, especially as we?re passing through a tiny part of England (Heathrow) on the way.

I'm not trying to demonise all older people as selfish, aggressive and materialistic. ?I just think that young people have so much more pressure on them nowadays to have a good job, more money, nicer car. ?Most of this can be attributed to capitalism, but it's also partly to do with the changing attitudes to money in the second half of the 20th century. ?

I can tell from your previous posts that you, like many of the older generation, prefer the era of your youth. ?Whilst I agree with many of your opinions, I also think that both social and economic change has become inevitable in recent decades - whether you like it or not. ?[smiley=icon_neutral.gif] ? To a large extent, these changes were induced by the large scale social revolutions which took place after World War 2. ?It, therefore, seems ironic that older people complain about ?modern society when they, in fact, went a long way to creating it. ?[smiley=icon_confused.gif]


Tottefan.

Oooooh, you are a bit of a stirrer, tottefan! ? ?[smiley=icon_mrgreen.gif] [smiley=icon_wink.gif]

I mean ... any thread with a post from you and everyone is getting wound up, repetitive strain injury from multiple editing of their posts, and flat bottoms from too long sitting at the PC. ? [smiley=icon_mrgreen.gif] ? [smiley=014.gif] ?[smiley=icon_wink.gif]

How do you find time? ? [smiley=icon_mrgreen.gif]
[smilie=Tease.gif]
[smiley=icon_biggrin.gif]

Oooooh, you are a bit of a stirrer, tottefan! [smiley=icon_mrgreen.gif] [smiley=icon_wink.gif]

I mean ... any thread with a post from you and everyone is getting wound up, repetitive strain injury from multiple editing of their posts, and flat bottoms from too long sitting at the PC. [smiley=icon_mrgreen.gif] [smiley=014.gif] [smiley=icon_wink.gif]

How do you find time? [smiley=icon_mrgreen.gif]

[smilie=Tease.gif]

[smiley=icon_biggrin.gif]

Enjoys a bit of a debate, does our Totte. [smiley=icon_wink.gif]

I had prepared another reply in response to Tottefan, but it's getting a bit late and my mind is beginning to warp, so perhaps I'll leave fine-tuning it until tomorrow (maybe [smiley=icon_biggrin.gif] ). I might look at it in the cold light of day and decide it's not worth posting after all.

Oooooh, you are a bit of a stirrer, tottefan!

Actually, as it happens, my parents have called me a stubborn ars***** on numerous occasions. [smiley=icon_frown.gif]

How do you find time?

I'm a student. [smiley=icon_biggrin.gif]
I've been told that sometimes I can come across as a bit confrontational. [smiley=icon_confused.gif] I certainly don't mean to be - it's just that I do like a good debate. [smiley=icon_eek.gif]

I do agree with virtually all of what Mother Bear writes though. 8-) I definitely despise the promiscuity and materialism that seems to becoming more prevalent in Britain every day. [smiley=icon_sad.gif] I think that the only point I tend to disagree with her on is why, and when, these changes started taking place. You see, I believe that far-reaching social changes happen over a number of years, possibly decades, rather than overnight. Even small, seemingly incremental changes in both social and government policy help to shape the future, even if it is as far as 50 or 100 years down the line. The truth is that Britain has been changing drastically for quite a few decades now.


Tottefan.

About ten years ago, one of my nephews asked me what kind of video games we had when I was a kid. I replied that we didn't have any until I was in my late teens, when Pong came out. He looked at me in awe and pity, and asked what did I do for fun? I guess he didn't climb too many trees or watch pollywogs in a creek.

Our present has many wonderful things, but I am glad I grew up when I did. Growing up how I did probably helped, and wasn't necessarily era-related.

My old maths tutor once said that you can tell why some children are aggressive and disruptive just by looking at their parents. ?In fact, he told me that quite often the parents are worse and will willingly start a fight if you insult their 'perfect' child. ? ::)

NZ is making a start on clamping down, at least.

Unruly parents face $1000 fine at school
22 June 2006
By KRISTI GRAY

Irate parents who abuse teachers in front of their students could now be fined $1000. The increased fine has been welcomed by teachers and principals, who say aggressive parents are a growing problem. An amendment to the Education Act has increased the fine for abusing, insulting or intimidating school staff in front of students ? in and out of school ? from $40 to $1000.

School Trustees' Association president Chris Haines said schools commonly served trespass notices to keep aggressive or bullying parents from entering a school. The association did not keep figures on the exact numbers, but he said they would have talks with at least two parents a month on issuing an order.

The new provision, which would allow prosecution of offending parents, was an extra means of signalling to parents that there was a correct way to deal with issues they had about teachers. 'We need to offer a measure of protection to teachers and to let parents know there is a proper procedure rather than bursting into a school and abusing a teacher,' Haines said. 'We hope the $1000 will be a good deterrent and we won't actually have to use it.'

New Zealand Principals' Federation president Pat Newman said the previous penalty did not make it worthwhile for schools to ask police to prosecute people abusing principals and staff in front of students.

'The new $1000 fine should give the act more teeth and be another string to our bow,' Newman said. 'Staff are experiencing increasing amounts of abuse by caregivers or relatives who are often under the influence of drugs or alcohol. Many schools have no males on the staff and it can be a real problem for younger female teachers confronted by a large male with an anger problem.'

Newman advised schools to use the process with caution and understanding. 'We need to let parents know schools are not going to continue to put up with being verbally threatened and abused,' he said. 'But we also need caution to make sure we use the power carefully. In fact, I hope we never have to use it.'

The amendment said a person could be charged with abusing staff within the presence or hearing of students regardless of whether it was at school or any other place where students had gathered for school purposes, Newman said.

Addington Primary School principal Trudy Heath said the school supported the amendment and had sent a letter to parents informing them of the change. 'As a staff, we are trying to encourage and reward good manners and respect for one another,' Heath said. 'We think parents and caregivers should provide a role model, just as we do.'

- The Press

To illustrate my point MB : which generation came up with today's crazy laws, which generation makes up today's governments, which generation fought for sexual liberation in the 1960s and 1970s, which generation weakened discipline in schools (and at home) in the 1960s and 1970s, and which generation brought up today's youngsters?

The answer, of course, is the 50-75 age group. They decided to follow a more liberal agenda and we are now reaping the results. [smiley=icon_confused.gif]


Tottefan.

When I was bringing up my boys, I can honestly say I wasn't particularly frightened of the life around me, as I certainly would be today. ?They have both turned out to be decent citizens and, as far as I know, many of the other kids of that generation have as well. ?The rot appears to have set in after that time when they are bringing up their children, but what has actually caused it I?m not in too great a position to comment on, as I left the country in early ?98. ?Things were already starting to get a bit hairy at that time.

My own few thoughts (and I?ve touched on these before) amongst the contributing causes are
a) an ever-increasing display of violence, thuggery and bad language on the TV and in films where film and programme makers feel pressured to try to outwit each other by producing nastier and bloodier scenes to keep viewing figures high. ?Some of this must surely seep into a child?s mind, whether to alarm a sensitive one and turn it into a quivering wreck or to prod a hardy, adventurous one into trying out a few things for itself. ?Being fed a regular diet of violence could desensitise a child into thinking it?s an everyday occurrence and normal behaviour. ?

b) the feeling of power and knowledge a child now has that an adult is not allowed to overstep the punishment limits laid down by law. ?They know very well that they can?t be touched and no doubt discuss this amongst themselves and have a good laugh about it. ?Without something to butt up against, a child will continue to push and push until something somewhere gives. ?They need defined borders to live and grow within, so they grow up straight and true instead of flailing around damaging themselves and their family because there?s nothing to hold them in check anymore. ?I?ve seen quite a few examples of this and, quite frankly, it sickened me how each child was constructively working towards dominating the adults. ?Parents, particularly, need to continually keep one-step ahead of their kids, which isn?t always easy when both are working and time for sitting and thinking things through is limited.

c) companies deliberately targeting kids with their vigorous advertising campaigns, resulting in a blizzard of demands for this and that, which puts enormous strain on the parents financially and results in unpleasant tantrums and threats if the items aren?t forthcoming. ?Then the child has a complex because its pals have all the latest gizmos and it hasn?t and, therefore, feels a lesser person. ? ?

These points are only just scratching the surface. ?IMO, any parent that can bring his/her children up to be decent, well-rounded people in this day and age, without succumbing to all the tremendous pressures put on them, deserves a medal.

I was just discussing this with hubster and he is of the same opinion as me, that it wasn't our generation, but our children's generation that the problem started with. ?I don't, for one minute, disagree that some of our generation have stuck their oar in and made things decidedly worse in some areas, but the immediate problem seems to be with the youngsters of today who were born to our children. ?Then again, it's difficult to say at what point one generation finishes and another one starts as we all tend to overlap one another, if that makes sense.